Guitar Innovationas and new ideas that we actually like!

[EdwardMarlowe]

The one downside I think about guitar playingb isa how negative guitar players tend to be when ticomes to new ideas. They all claim to be rock and roll and open minded.... yet they're the absolute worst at accepting any nerw concept. Any former Harmnoy Centrallers here rememer when the Variax was release and so, so many of them fell over themselves to be the first to sneer "enjoy your toy" at anyone who consdiered buying one? Yeesh. Whiel my own preferences are, I fully admit, mostly rooted in the 50s, I still love to see new ideas come out. Though I can't imagine owning one (save if I had *massive* money, then I'd buy one purely to play blues and country rock on), I do still enjoy seeing the craftsmanship gonig into thel ikes of a Dean ML. 

So, in the spriti of positivity, what new ideas have you seen in electric guitar world that you really like and would love to incorporate into a guitar you might own?

I'll put up a roasted maple Fender neck for starters. I'd love a nice, solid-colour Strat with one of those. It'd also look pretty damn cool on an acoustic guitar...

[Kiwi]

I'm still lamenting the lack of an equivalent to the NLA Wilkinson VS100C trem.  Luckily I have four of these bridges stashed away for future projects after stumbling on Trevor's daughter selling off NOS on Reverb.  Nothing else like them.  The one change I'd make is to include a fulcrum/bearing based pivot point.

https://www.axebition.com/bridge/wilkinson-vs100c-convertible

[ezbass]

6 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I'm still lamenting the lack of an equivalent to the NLA Wilkinson VS100C trem.  Luckily I have four of these bridges stashed away for future projects after stumbling on Trevor's daughter selling off NOS on Reverb.  Nothing else like them.  The one change I'd make is to include a fulcrum/bearing based pivot point.

https://www.axebition.com/bridge/wilkinson-vs100c-convertible

I still don’t understand why these didn’t catch on, they seemed like a genius idea to me.

[EdwardMarlowe]

I've never owned one, but I like the concept. The Steinberger Spirit I have has a little lever that achieves the same thing. I guess maybe they didn't catch on more because trem systems became much more stable over time (my 1994 US Std Strat has the Fedner 2 post, and it takes seriosu abouse to go out), so there wasn't a perceived need for it? I guess if you don't want the option of the trem on a guitar it can always be blcoked a la Clapton, so they became a solution in search of a problem. Just my theory, anyhow.

[Kiwi]

Wilkinson were THE OEM hardware company for a while in the US,  it's not like they lacked profile.  But there was a patent clash with Gibson in the US.  Gotoh became the US distributor in a deal but I don't recall seeing the bridges being promoted much. Gibson didn't have their own alternative to offer.  But the bridges were only restricted in the US,  nowhere else and supposedly the restrictions were due to end sometime after 2007... 

[Kiwi]

it's a fiddly system to set up but reliable once done properly.  I have an Steinberger R trem with the lever too,  it's far less convenient than the VS100C

[EdwardMarlowe]

The lever is basically like blocking a Fedner trem, but instantly reversible. I do think it adds slightly to the sustain/ tone acoustically, though I'm not sure it does much for the plugged-in sound either way. Oddly enough, though, I used to have a Chinese Squier Strat Std that was a nice enough guitar, but when I blcoked the trem with a synthetic wine cork, it just sang. Night and day of a difference.

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 19/06/2020 at 23:47, Kiwi said:

Wilkinson were THE OEM hardware company for a while in the US,  it's not like they lacked profile.  But there was a patent clash with Gibson in the US.  Gotoh became the US distributor in a deal but I don't recall seeing the bridges being promoted much. Gibson didn't have their own alternative to offer.  But the bridges were only restricted in the US,  nowhere else and supposedly the restrictions were due to end sometime after 2007... 

You don't think Gibson were trying to hold back vibrato bridges in general, given they're not really celebrated for them?

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

...I blcoked the trem with a synthetic wine cork, it just sang...

Yes, synthetic wine often has that effect. 

...

[Kiwi]

8 hours ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

You don't think Gibson were trying to hold back vibrato bridges in general, given they're not really celebrated for them?

This is America, I don't know what to believe any more. But Gibson haven't been known for a lot of things they've done, robot tuners for example. 

[ezbass]

6 hours ago, Kiwi said:

This is America, I don't know what to believe any more. But Gibson haven't been known for a lot of things they've done, robot tuners for example. 

Hmm, best forgotten about.

[EdwardMarlowe]

TBH, I never thought that was an especially bad idea.... All done and said, I'd rather have some sort of outboard device that could do all that but built into a string winder, but ti seemed to me it got more back lash than it really deserved purely as an idea. I suppose it's the case that few of us change tunings al that much, but...

[Rikki_Sixx]

I love seeing new shapes and innovations come out. They're not always to my taste, but it's nice to see something diffrerent being attempted. Reverend guitars seem a good example; a lot of their stuff is inspired by classic shapes, but they're putting interesting spins on mass produced, quality, affordable gear.

On 17/06/2020 at 14:29, EdwardMarlowe said:

Any former Harmnoy Centrallers here rememer when the Variax was release and so, so many of them fell over themselves to be the first to sneer "enjoy your toy" at anyone who consdiered buying one? Yeesh.

A friend of mine picked up a Variax when they came out. He was a huge Line 6 fan and already had a POD among other things, and once he had a Variax the variety of tones he could get was unreal. The sound was so convincing. Bloody heavy though!

[ezbass]

There is an old joke that sums up the guitar playing community:

How many guitar players does it take to change a light bulb? 25. One to change it and 24 to talk about how much better the old one was.

[EdwardMarlowe]

16 hours ago, Rikki_Sixx said:

I love seeing new shapes and innovations come out. They're not always to my taste, but it's nice to see something diffrerent being attempted. Reverend guitars seem a good example; a lot of their stuff is inspired by classic shapes, but they're putting interesting spins on mass produced, quality, affordable gear.

A friend of mine picked up a Variax when they came out. He was a huge Line 6 fan and already had a POD among other things, and once he had a Variax the variety of tones he could get was unreal. The sound was so convincing. Bloody heavy though!

I do like the looks of Reverend. I've considered the Strat-eque one with the three p90s before now. Fano are anotehr brand that really appeal to me - guitars that look very much like they could have existed back in the day, but didn't - that's bang up my street. I also admire Eastwood for that (not bad for lefties either), though I've not yet had a chance to play one. I hear they need a fair bit of fettling sometimes. I would love to have one of the Jack White Airplane types - there's something about those that gives me a real Link Wray vibe, like those bitsas he used to play assembled from a whole bunch of bits of the sort of guitars Eastwood take on. The other Eastwood I would definitely buy is one of the Johnny Ramone type Mosrite copies - I think they call it the JR Elite, a nice repop of Johnny's white Ventures II as heavily customised by himself. If they ever make that as a lefty... "Mosrite of California" (in Japan) who did the "official" signature never did. Tym in Australia did , I know, but I think he's called it quits now, alas.

I never had a chance to play a Variax (they did do the niddle-range model left handed, but only that one). I'd be tempted by an acoustic version. In fact, if I was ever gonig to seriously get into playing out live with an acoustic sound, I'd have somebody like Gordon Smith build me a LP-shaped guitar with no cutaway (so the shape resembled a small O or Parlour model), with a thru neck, thru-body bridge, and two output jacks, with two toggle switches that sent output from the pick-ups (likely someting piezoish, and a body contact-mike) either both to the same socket, both to both sockets, or one each to one socket, and the ability to switch between each pup individually and both on together. With the right amplification system, that could get a goo acoustic sound with no feedback, I reckon. Either that, or send the signal from one socket to a small amp if no monitor is avaialble, and the other via a good acoustic preamp to the house PA. Im' sure somebody's alrady donig something like this, though...

If those new acoustasonic Fenders had a MIM or Squier version, I'd be well up for it. As they are, they're just a bit more than I want to spend on a guitar, but I think they're a great concept.

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

If those new acoustasonic Fenders had a MIM or Squier version, I'd be well up for it. As they are, they're just a bit more than I want to spend on a guitar, but I think they're a great concept.

I really like the look of the Tele ones (no surprises there then), but they are spitefully expensive.  I do think they should've started with a mid budget version to test interest. Then they could've gone for a premium model and maybe a Squier after that.

[EdwardMarlowe]

I wonder if they're starting with the pricey one to create a perception of "value", then down the track a couple of years we'll get an "affordable" verison and we'll see it as "an affrodable veriason of that expensive guitar", rather than "an expensive version of the affordable guitar", which could be a harder sell. If I was a session pro, I'd have one for acoustic sounds in my rack already based purely on ther demos I've seen, but yeah, they're priced for a pro as they are. Fingerscrossed for "Player Series" vrasions that include lefties in future. My only difficulty would be choosing between the Tele and the Strat.... If they did the Strat with a baked maple neck, that could be decision made...

 

[RobF]

New things ? 

How about the PRS SE  Hollowbody 2 with piezo. Sounds good to me and I will know later today just how good .

 

[EdwardMarlowe]

That's be interesting. The Fenders are, I think, something else again, but it's interesting that the idea of a piezo hooked into a 'regular' electric guitar has never really take off for live performance - maybe most players were just happy with an acoustic simulator pedal, though surely the piezo would get closer the 'real thing'. I seem to remember that James Dean Bradfield from the Manic Street Preachers had some sort of piezo gubbins fitting to the ridge of his white LP back in the late 90s, but I don't recall any more details. PRS are the sort of company I can imagine convincing people to buy into that, though. In a good way, I  mean. While they're not a guitar I've aspired to own myself, I've always been impressed with how they came from nowhere to being big enough that the big boys - certainly Gibson - saw them as a threat. I wouldn't be surprised if their SE range is what's behind the serious revamp of the ~Epiphone brand in the last few years.

[EdwardMarlowe]

Here's another one.... Remember Switch guitars? Somesort of plastic polymer body and neck? They wre all far too futuristic looking for me, but I liked the theory - the idea that you could alter the consistency of the polymer to imitate specific wood types, and achieve total consistency. Think about it - you want to be able to buy a Strat body that directly imitated the tone of, say, Blackie or Jimi's Woodstock Strat? Or you want to buy a Strat body for a project designed to produce a sympathetic tone for specific pickups?  This is honestly the kind of stuff I think Leo Fender would be working on now, were he still with us. Guitarists will take a long, long tiem to convince of its value, but if I could buy a recycled-plastic polymer body (thus: green) that was cheaper than wood and had a ool look (like a glitter blue or something), that would rock.

[ezbass]

Anyone remember the Bond Electraglide?

[EdwardMarlowe]

Yes! THe one that replaced the frets with a stepped fingerboard, right? Only ever seen one of those in person - it was on sale in a guitar shop in - I think  - Amsterdam in 2003. Never played one. I imagine it takes  a bit of getting used to.

[EliasMooseblaster]

On 17/06/2020 at 14:29, EdwardMarlowe said:

So, in the spriti of positivity, what new ideas have you seen in electric guitar world that you really like and would love to incorporate into a guitar you might own?

Active pickups and onboard EQ!

I'm being a little facetious, granted, but how many bassists do you know who play active basses, or at least have one in their armoury? How many bass amps have separate active and passive inputs? Now do the same count for how many people you know with active guitars - I know one, and I suspect I'm above the average in that regard!

I'm not going to try and argue that active pickups and onboard EQ are the future that we're in denial about. It just seems quite striking to me how the bass community accepted and embraced this new technology, and now has an entire sub-population who will only play active basses...and yet you almost never hear about it among guitar players.

[EdwardMarlowe]

Quite so - there's something about bass players that they've always been much more open to new ideas....  Maybe with only four strigns to worry about (most of the time, anyhow) they have the extra brain space to cope with other bits?

Funnily enoug,h one of the guitars I'll be selling is a Westone Thunder IA (Matsumoko-built) with onboard actives. Flick on the boost, and it sounds like the best sort of SG.... exactly the sound I always wanted in a Les Paul but could never find....  I instinctively shrink at the idea of active pickups., but I ouldn't honestly tell you why. I think it's one of those "But these go to eleven" mental blocks... IT's intersting that the original Clapton Fender sig model with the mid boost was designed so it stayed on permanently.... I alwayswodnered if they could have achieved the same thing another way without the need for a battery....  probably not, as I'm sure Fender are pretty on the ball no these things at that level!!

I'm liking the concept of the Vox Nutube on paper. If they can guarantee the future of those and were also able to produce a convertor plate so they could plug in in place of "normal" tubes, I think they could havea killer app that would reach that paert of the marketr that will orever be "tubes good, digital baaaad".

[EliasMooseblaster]

16 hours ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

Quite so - there's something about bass players that they've always been much more open to new ideas....  Maybe with only four strigns to worry about (most of the time, anyhow) they have the extra brain space to cope with other bits?

Putting my bass players' hat back on...are we just more aware of our EQ, and the way it affects the way our tone sits in the mix? I wonder if the fact that we have to achieve "presence" in the mix, in the face of more limited audibility, is the reason that bass amps are much more likely to have a graphic EQ built in than guitar amps are! I've certainly played with a few guitarists who didn't realise that cranking their amp's bass control might have sounded great in their bedroom, but just coated a band mix in sonic wool.

And in the interests of balance, there are still bass players who think that active pickups and onboard EQ are the devil's work, and will only consider passive basses. (Almost me: I only own one active bass to ten passives!)

16 hours ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

I'm liking the concept of the Vox Nutube on paper. If they can guarantee the future of those and were also able to produce a convertor plate so they could plug in in place of "normal" tubes, I think they could havea killer app that would reach that paert of the marketr that will orever be "tubes good, digital baaaad".

I hadn't heard of those before, but I'm very intrigued! Speaking on direct substitutions, I did stumble across the "warm stone" developed by AMT: https://amtelectronics.com/new/amt-12ax7ws/

Not sure how they compare to "the real thing," but whilst I've been quite lucky with valve amps so far, I would be happy to consider a more reliable alternative if it sounded as good!