Dream amps they don't make yet?

[EdwardMarlowe]

What it says on the label. I'm interested in what other folks want in an amp of any sort that isn't on the market yet (no reason other than a discussion - alas I'm not in a place to make it happen!). 

I'm not opposed to valves per se, but equally, I've never been a tube purist. If it sounds good, then it is. I absolutely welcome the idea of an alternative tech that can't be distinguished from tubes, on the basis that that isn't just "reinventing the wheel". It would bring a lot of other benefits - lighter to carry around, more manageable volume, and, well - I don't think tubes are going to be around at an affordable price forever. But the practicality of carting it around and convenience go a long way for me. I've said for a long time I'd welcome a good modeller that instead of offering eleventy million different sounds did one sound really well. I have a big Vox AD120VT. Gorgeous sound, as good as any of what it knocks off, BUT I've only ever used one or two sounds from it. I don't like onboard effects. I use effects less and less nowadays (I'll keep all my old pedals, but really all I want now is a decent, classic od, clean boost, tremolo, and echo/reverb). 99% of what the Vox can do is wasted on me. Fender have in more recent years produced what appeals to me in their Tonemaster series. Of that lineup, the Twin Reverb really appeals - money no object, I'd have one of those already, and be waiting to jump on the Tweed Twin and Tweed Champ versions as they arrive. That's the sweet spot for me.

With that sort of tech here and new models on the way, my thoughts have turned to tiny, on the go practice amps. The killer app for me now would be something the size of the Positive Grid Spark Go, but simpler. Sounds like a Tweed Champ, decent volume (The PGSG does have the right volume level for me), headphone socket, and a 3.5mm line in. The Go sounds great, but it's got a lot of functionality I'd never use. The bigger strike against it is the lack (if I've picked up the spec right) of a 3.5mm line in. I'd like something that could be a hotel room amp sort of thing, but also function as an external speaker for my mp3 player and tablet on the go. Both of these devices do have blutooth, but I vastly prefer to use a 3.5mm cable instead, which makes a very marked difference to battery life. 

So that's what I'm waiting for happening in the amp market: a pocket-size, 1 watt Fender Tonemaster Champ with 3.5mm line in and a line out. Given the leaps and bounds in tech since I got my Smokey amp twenty plus years ago (still fun, but not a 'serious' amp, more of an effect than anything), it should surely only be a matter of time? 

[randythoades]

I agree about the valves argument. I do like valve amps but can't work out any way to use them effectively at different volume levels, so I have always been drawn towards solid state and modelling for both the benefit in weight and also that once I set my sound I just use the volume knob (on both guitar and amp) to actually control the volume level and not just add gain.

But, like @EdwardMarlowe I only use one or two sounds, rarely use effects other than on board reverb. My ideal would be similar to above. I really like the look of the Tonemaster series, but it seems a huge amount of money to pay for a modelling amp.

A smaller Tonemaster Champ with a decent XLR simulated out for PA, 3.5mm line in and headphone out would suit me perfectly, even better if it had some digital reverb and a slapback delay. I do use the Blackstar Fly for pretty much all my home practice and it sound ok for home, so almost a 'quality/boutique' version of this that I could use as an interface into PA as needed would be very nice.

[EdwardMarlowe]

4 hours ago, randythoades said:

I agree about the valves argument. I do like valve amps but can't work out any way to use them effectively at different volume levels, so I have always been drawn towards solid state and modelling for both the benefit in weight and also that once I set my sound I just use the volume knob (on both guitar and amp) to actually control the volume level and not just add gain.

But, like @EdwardMarlowe I only use one or two sounds, rarely use effects other than on board reverb. My ideal would be similar to above. I really like the look of the Tonemaster series, but it seems a huge amount of money to pay for a modelling amp.

A smaller Tonemaster Champ with a decent XLR simulated out for PA, 3.5mm line in and headphone out would suit me perfectly, even better if it had some digital reverb and a slapback delay. I do use the Blackstar Fly for pretty much all my home practice and it sound ok for home, so almost a 'quality/boutique' version of this that I could use as an interface into PA as needed would be very nice.

The price is the kicker indeed. For those of us used to buying non-tube amps at a much lower price, these do look pricey. I suppose the other way to look at it, though, would be that they're markedly cheaper than the all-tube original amps they have  - e.g. c/f the 'normal' Twin Reverb with the price of the Tonemaster... so if the alternative was looking at those, then it is a saving. I'd love to know the cost difference to Fender in production and how that works in to their pricing strategy, given that there's still obviously R&D costs to factor in to the Tonemasters as they're fairly new, whereas the tube circuits they've been building for decades.... If it gets popular enough, I'm sure we'll see it filter down to more affordable options, in the same way that thirty odd years ago or more Peavy turned out their own range of tweed amps at a very competitive price vs the Fenders. 

The Vox 'nutube' tech is interesting as well, I'm intrigued as to whether that will take off. I don't know anything much about the tech and how it works, though giving the player the notion at least that there's a sort-of direct equivalent of the traditional tube in it might help persuade some of the 'four legs good, two legs bad' crowd. 

The other question of course is how long the idea of the traditional amp lasts for live use. I'm hearing of more and more players going the 'amp sim pedal to PA' route. The sort of Champ you describe could be a really great way of marketing that sort of convenience with the idea of 'authenticity' bundled in. What the really big artists are doing will, of course, reman influential... 

[randythoades]

13 minutes ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

The price is the kicker indeed. For those of us used to buying non-tube amps at a much lower price, these do look pricey. I suppose the other way to look at it, though, would be that they're markedly cheaper than the all-tube original amps they have  - e.g. c/f the 'normal' Twin Reverb with the price of the Tonemaster... so if the alternative was looking at those, then it is a saving. I'd love to know the cost difference to Fender in production and how that works in to their pricing strategy, given that there's still obviously R&D costs to factor in to the Tonemasters as they're fairly new, whereas the tube circuits they've been building for decades.... If it gets popular enough, I'm sure we'll see it filter down to more affordable options, in the same way that thirty odd years ago or more Peavy turned out their own range of tweed amps at a very competitive price vs the Fenders. 

The Vox 'nutube' tech is interesting as well, I'm intrigued as to whether that will take off. I don't know anything much about the tech and how it works, though giving the player the notion at least that there's a sort-of direct equivalent of the traditional tube in it might help persuade some of the 'four legs good, two legs bad' crowd. 

The other question of course is how long the idea of the traditional amp lasts for live use. I'm hearing of more and more players going the 'amp sim pedal to PA' route. The sort of Champ you describe could be a really great way of marketing that sort of convenience with the idea of 'authenticity' bundled in. What the really big artists are doing will, of course, reman influential... 

 

I agree. I did spend decent money and got a great 'halfway' solution in the Roland blues cube, but it is too closely modelled on a valve amp. I could get some great tones, but struggled to get a consistent sound from home to rehearsal to gig. I still have it  because it does sound great, but rarely use it now.

I would have thought though, that Fender could use the Mustang amps as a basis for the TM series and just tweak it with decent components and speakers to make it a much better proposition with minimal cost implication, but to have it at double the cost for a 10th of the functions seems a bit steep.
So my current solution (although not gigging at the moment), is the Joyo American sound, delay and boost on a small pedal board. But, following suggestions from @Kiwi, I am now trying rack mount system to remove all the variables and just have good consistent sound from XLR into PA or small powered speaker at home. Having the no-amp situation though creates just as much stuff as you need IEM or decent monitors in order to hear yourself, so not sure how much of a better solution it really is.

[EdwardMarlowe]

40 minutes ago, randythoades said:

 

I agree. I did spend decent money and got a great 'halfway' solution in the Roland blues cube, but it is too closely modelled on a valve amp. I could get some great tones, but struggled to get a consistent sound from home to rehearsal to gig. I still have it  because it does sound great, but rarely use it now.

I would have thought though, that Fender could use the Mustang amps as a basis for the TM series and just tweak it with decent components and speakers to make it a much better proposition with minimal cost implication, but to have it at double the cost for a 10th of the functions seems a bit steep.
So my current solution (although not gigging at the moment), is the Joyo American sound, delay and boost on a small pedal board. But, following suggestions from @Kiwi, I am now trying rack mount system to remove all the variables and just have good consistent sound from XLR into PA or small powered speaker at home. Having the no-amp situation though creates just as much stuff as you need IEM or decent monitors in order to hear yourself, so not sure how much of a better solution it really is.

Yeah, it's definitely still a 'gear needed' vibe, though easier to transport? I supposed the other thing is whether the venue PA can provide anything amounting to a monitor - if not, that's classically been when the amp is useful... which goes back to your idea of the Tonemaster Champ.... 

I've just become aware of the Fly, fwiw. I was initially wary given the web buzz makes so much of the company's origins with guys who struck out from Marshall (Marshall make great stuff, it's just not for me - I'm very much a Fender-style amp guy), but the Fly looks like it might be well worth me looking into. I quite fancy the extension cab version, even if it does somewhat reduce the point of it being so portable.... The white / blonde one is really nice.... I did so want to love the Fender Mini 57. It knocks the socks off everything else for looks, but soundwise all the vids I've seen it can't hold a candle to the Fly. 

I've heard very good things about the Bluescube amps as well - pity they didn't include some sort of on-board attenuation, but then if they were shooting for the gigging musician as target market, I can see why... 

[Dad3353]

27 minutes ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

... pity they didn't include some sort of on-board attenuation ...

From the Roland site ...

• Performance-ready 60-watt combo guitar amplifier with authentic tube tone and touch response
• Roland’s comprehensive Tube Logic design delivers the interactive tonal behaviors of famous fine-tuned vintage tube amps,
• including preamp and output tube distortion characteristics, power supply compression, and much more
• Independent Clean and Crunch channels, plus unique Dual Tone mode for blending channels to expand tonal possibilities
• Master volume and three-band EQ, plus Boost and Tone switches on each channel
• Four-way Power Control (0.5 W, 15 W, 45 W, Max) allows for cranked-amp tones at any volume
• Onboard high-quality reverb
• Classic open-back design with custom 12-inch speaker and poplar cabinet for enhanced presence on stage
• Stylish, modern look with a vintage vibe
• Efficient, lightweight design provides easy portability without sacrificing tone quality
• USB output for high-quality direct recording to a computer
• Channel selection and Dual Tone can be controlled with optional footswitches

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Dad3353

[randythoades]

The Blues Cube does indeed have onboard attentuation, but it isn't great. The sound doesn't really stay the same at the different attenuation levels, it just reduces the gain the higher towards full power you get and increases the treble (just as you would expect to happen with a valve amp). So, you can get slightly crunchy at lower volume which becomes ear piercing treble and crystal clear at full volume. Also, the 'Line Out' isn't great either into PA. It is ok, and certainly good for sound re-inforcement, but not fantastic.

You can get it to sound properly great at any of the volume levels, but it is just too much like a valve amp (as I think it is designed) so involves a lot of tweaking which I don't really want to do, I just want to set and forget. I use it as my amp at work for noodling when I get the chance.

If you like a valve amp and are just looking for a lighter and easier package then it is fantastic, just wasn't the way I wanted to use it. I wanted a volume or attenuation to merely increase the overall volume level.

 

I went back to using my Fender Frontman or my Joyo.

Edited August 31, 2023 by randythoades
spelling

[Kiwi]

As mentioned in the other thread - Fender should make a TM version of a Stage 4 modified Princeton Reverb from the late 70's/early 80's.  My PRII is absolutely killer and my absolute favourite guitar amp of all time out of those I've tried.  But it's about 70% of the way towards a Rivera Stage 4 modded Fender despite having Rivera's involvement.

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 02/09/2023 at 03:13, Kiwi said:

As mentioned in the other thread - Fender should make a TM version of a Stage 4 modified Princeton Reverb from the late 70's/early 80's.  My PRII is absolutely killer and my absolutel favourite guitar amp of all time.  But it's about 70% of the way towards a Rivera Stage 4 amp despite having Rivera's involvement.

Some great amps in the Silverface era, though I suspect it might be a while before they're seen as bring as desirable, sufficiently so for the Tonemaster series. 

[Kiwi]

On 04/09/2023 at 03:09, EdwardMarlowe said:

Some great amps in the Silverface era, though I suspect it might be a while before they're seen as bring as desirable, sufficiently so for the Tonemaster series. 

Given Fender released a limited edition Princeton modified by Rivera a few years back, and then Rivera released his own version via Sweetwater, they're already testing the market.  Both varieties were scooped up by fans in pretty short order and none of them were made in 240v versions.  But if they ever wanted proof of popularity then this must be it.  Sometimes I don't understand some of Fender's commercial decisions though.  Maybe Rivera wanted to keep a tight grip on production to safeguard his modding IP.

[knirirr]

On 29/08/2023 at 13:17, EdwardMarlowe said:

The Vox 'nutube' tech is interesting as well, I'm intrigued as to whether that will take off. I don't know anything much about the tech and how it works, though giving the player the notion at least that there's a sort-of direct equivalent of the traditional tube in it might help persuade some of the 'four legs good, two legs bad' crowd. 
 

 

From what I've read, Vox think that it is indeed a sort-of direct equivalent. I'm not sure if it's catching on, though.

Recently, I purchased an MVX150C1 (Nutubes in preamp and power amp) but I think they're discontinued; the one I got was the last in stock at PMT and at a discounted price. I've not had chance to try it at a jam, gig or rehearsal yet but the tone seems good to me and I'd guess that it would be loud enough (150W class D 1x12"). Whilst they were generally available they didn't appear to be very popular, as far as I can tell.

I've also got a VX50 GTV (Nutube in the preamp) and this has proven to be loud for its size and very portable.

[Diary Of An Axeman]

I made a rack with a older Digitech 2112 SGS , that has two 12ax7 valves and from the two balanced outputs, it goes into two VHT Valvulator 1's,  that is a buffer with a 12ax7 tube each, before going into two Crate Power Blocks Solid State amps.

 

It is a hybrid set up, delivers very effective tube dynamics, feel and response. 

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 07/09/2024 at 22:24, knirirr said:

 

From what I've read, Vox think that it is indeed a sort-of direct equivalent. I'm not sure if it's catching on, though.

Recently, I purchased an MVX150C1 (Nutubes in preamp and power amp) but I think they're discontinued; the one I got was the last in stock at PMT and at a discounted price. I've not had chance to try it at a jam, gig or rehearsal yet but the tone seems good to me and I'd guess that it would be loud enough (150W class D 1x12"). Whilst they were generally available they didn't appear to be very popular, as far as I can tell.

I've also got a VX50 GTV (Nutube in the preamp) and this has proven to be loud for its size and very portable.

What makes me wary is it's still only Vox  doing them. I'm a bit wary of being too dependent on anything proprietary, because if the company changes direction or folds, then you're stuck for spares... 

On the topic of bringing stuff back ,though, I wish Vox would bring back the T series solid state bass amps they did back about twenty plus years ago. I bought a well-used T25 for a song on eBay around 2004, and it's been all the home bass amp I've ever needed. They did them up to a 60 (Al Gare used a T60 live and in the studio with Palookaville and the original Imelda May Band, and it was superb). Cracking warm bass sound that defied the tube nerds with its warmth. No idea how it would cope with effects tbh - I don't use them with bass - but lovely stuff. I'd like to try one of the newer Vox bass amps with the plastic(?) shell. Demos all sound great and they look to be very practical for carting around, even if they've lost something in the cosmetic department. Again, something like that housed in a big, square tweed box would be my ideal for the looks... 

[knirirr]

2 minutes ago, EdwardMarlowe said:

What makes me wary is it's still only Vox  doing them. I'm a bit wary of being too dependent on anything proprietary, because if the company changes direction or folds, then you're stuck for spares... 

 

 

A good point indeed; there is certainly a risk.
Since then I have used it at some jams and it had plenty of volume on the clean channel even with the attenuator on 1/2 power.

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 22/01/2025 at 10:51, knirirr said:

 

A good point indeed; there is certainly a risk.
Since then I have used it at some jams and it had plenty of volume on the clean channel even with the attenuator on 1/2 power.

It's definitely a really cool idea, like a viable alternative to tubes that's still notionally tubes, given the nature of the guitar amp market. There was a time I thought we might have to see the end of tube production for things to move on (or them become unavailable in the West - given they're all made in China and Russia now, not unthinkable, though frankly if / when *that * war happens, I doubt we'll be worrying about something as minor as amps. Assuming we survive it). I suppose the big question with amp developments now is to what extent alternative to amps begin to replace them altogether. I expect we'll always see people who want to use an amp (rather than DI trickery) in the studio, but on stage where a pedal board replacement (subject to a venue having decent monitoring and the rest) has obvious practical benefits.... I'm imagining a lot of working musos would love to do a tour where the whole band's gear, including the drumkit, could fit in a Volvo estate. Maybe for the big acts what we'll see is them still having the walls of cabs for show, but pedals replacing the '15watt combo they're actually playing through' into the PA... I suppose what I'm rambling at is which of the competing techs we now see will be the mp3 player, and which will turn out to be the Minidisc (lovely idea, but got overtaken before it could really establish itself).