LP vs SG

[EliasMooseblaster]

(...vs Explorer vs Flying V vs Firebird, etc...)

Is there, fundamentally, a difference in tone? Obviously a Les Paul Standard has a very different body construction from an SG Standard, and different players have their preferences. Personally I've always felt there's something a bit too "bombastic" about the tone of a LP, which I don't hear so much in SGs.

But then, if you take a more reductionist view of these Gibson designs, the pickup placements and wirings are the same. Ditto the Flying V, Explorer, Firebird - all their twin humbucker designs, basically. And there's no denying that there's a vague and generic "Gibson sound" which they all produce.

So: can anyone with more experience tell me whether a Les Paul will sound fundamentally different from an SG, all other variables being equal? Or is it (a) my imagination? (b) something about their build/weight/feel which inspires one to play them differently? (c) something else entirely?

[bassbiscuits]

I've owned three SGs and played various LPs tho never owned one. 

Hard to describe the difference but the SGs always seemed to sound more woody, maybe midrangy and a bit more honky/nasally is the best way to explain. 

LPs had a fatter, fuller, creamier sound due in part to the thicker, mahogany body and maple cap construction.

I actually prefer the less refined, raspier sound of SGs as well as the lighter weight, tho they've been more inclined to neck dive than LPs for me. 

Could I tell them apart blindfold? Yes if everything else in the set up was equal.

But listening to a band at gig volumes etc no i don't think I could tell you whether they were playing a V, Explorer, SG or Les Paul on sound alone. 

Theyve all got a big slab of Gibson humbucker goodness. That's why we love them! 

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, bassbiscuits said:

 

Hard to describe the difference but the SGs always seemed to sound more woody, maybe midrangy and a bit more honky/nasally is the best way to explain. 

I reckon that’s a spot on description.

[EliasMooseblaster]

19 hours ago, bassbiscuits said:

Hard to describe the difference but the SGs always seemed to sound more woody, maybe midrangy and a bit more honky/nasally is the best way to explain. 

LPs had a fatter, fuller, creamier sound due in part to the thicker, mahogany body and maple cap construction.

I actually prefer the less refined, raspier sound of SGs as well as the lighter weight, tho they've been more inclined to neck dive than LPs for me.

I'm glad it's not just me - I think you've described the difference in their tones far better than I could, and it's good to know the difference wasn't just in my own head. There's definitely something a bit less grandiose but more aggressive in the SGs I've tried.

[EdwardMarlowe]

A good SG always sounded to me the way I wish an LP would. None of the mud I always end up finding with LPs, somehow. Though the ultimate Gibson for me would be an LP Junior, single cut.... except with a thru-neck rather than a glued-in. 

[bassbiscuits]

On 16/10/2018 at 21:01, EdwardMarlowe said:

A good SG always sounded to me the way I wish an LP would. None of the mud I always end up finding with LPs, somehow. Though the ultimate Gibson for me would be an LP Junior, single cut.... except with a thru-neck rather than a glued-in. 

I was also lucky enough to acquire an early 2000s SG Junior 1968 reissue for a while (borrowed not bought!)

The single P90 was the single best sounding bit of guitar in my house (trouncing two strats and an Epiphone Casino).

However much I tried i love it, I did find it a bit of a one-trick pony once the initial rush of playing really really loud had subsided! 

Yes there are other sounds available but they are not easily on tap - rolling off the tone and/or the volume does yield all sorts of different tones, but not for quick live use. 

Now if they only made them with two P90s.... hang on....!

[MoonBassAlpha]

Yes, I'd say it's a more biting tone. I really liked Zappa's tone when he was using an (albeit highly modified) SG, and Terry Kath on early Chicago records, though he did use others too.

Mine is a bit on the bright side as I has the very light body and mini humbuckers from '74. Good for choppy punky sounds though that don't need a lot of sustain. It does feed back in a nice controllable way though, so you can get the sustain that way.

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 18/10/2018 at 13:11, bassbiscuits said:

I was also lucky enough to acquire an early 2000s SG Junior 1968 reissue for a while (borrowed not bought!)

The single P90 was the single best sounding bit of guitar in my house (trouncing two strats and an Epiphone Casino).

However much I tried i love it, I did find it a bit of a one-trick pony once the initial rush of playing really really loud had subsided! 

Yes there are other sounds available but they are not easily on tap - rolling off the tone and/or the volume does yield all sorts of different tones, but not for quick live use. 

Now if they only made them with two P90s.... hang on....!

I've always liked the single pup guitars precisely for their limitations, but then with most guitars, tbh, I'v always tended to find the one truly great sound buried in that particular instrument and then run with that....Maybe because my formative few months were on acoustic? 

On 20/10/2018 at 09:12, MoonBassAlpha said:

Yes, I'd say it's a more biting tone. I really liked Zappa's tone when he was using an (albeit highly modified) SG, and Terry Kath on early Chicago records, though he did use others too.

Mine is a bit on the bright side as I has the very light body and mini humbuckers from '74. Good for choppy punky sounds though that don't need a lot of sustain. It does feed back in a nice controllable way though, so you can get the sustain that way.

SGs are a great punk guitar. Not sure, tbh, why LPs tended to outnumber them on the classic punk recordings, except maybe the notion some people have that an AG is a sort of stepping stone to an LP? 

[EliasMooseblaster]

On 24/10/2018 at 16:07, EdwardMarlowe said:

I've always liked the single pup guitars precisely for their limitations, but then with most guitars, tbh, I'v always tended to find the one truly great sound buried in that particular instrument and then run with that....Maybe because my formative few months were on acoustic? 

SGs are a great punk guitar. Not sure, tbh, why LPs tended to outnumber them on the classic punk recordings, except maybe the notion some people have that an AG is a sort of stepping stone to an LP? 

I've heard this mentality from some Strat and LP players - the notion that the Tele and SG were "supposed to be cheaper, mass-produced guitars," and that there's no point in investing in the expensive, high-end American versions, you may as well save your pennies and get the MiM / Epiphone versions.

Granted, the SG is a far simpler construction than a properly chambered, curved-top Les Paul, but I still think it's a thing of beauty in its own right. Yes, it's got that rough-and-readiness about it through association with groups like The Who and AC/DC, and indeed some punk bands, but it's worth remembering that Cream-era Clapton and Santana's early work showed how they could really sing.

[bassbiscuits]

7 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

I've heard this mentality from some Strat and LP players - the notion that the Tele and SG were "supposed to be cheaper, mass-produced guitars," and that there's no point in investing in the expensive, high-end American versions, you may as well save your pennies and get the MiM / Epiphone versions.

Granted, the SG is a far simpler construction than a properly chambered, curved-top Les Paul, but I still think it's a thing of beauty in its own right. Yes, it's got that rough-and-readiness about it through association with groups like The Who and AC/DC, and indeed some punk bands, but it's worth remembering that Cream-era Clapton and Santana's early work showed how they could really sing.

I

 

On 24/10/2018 at 16:07, EdwardMarlowe said:

I've always liked the single pup guitars precisely for their limitations, but then with most guitars, tbh, I'v always tended to find the one truly great sound buried in that particular instrument and then run with that....Maybe because my formative few months were on acoustic? 

SGs are a great punk guitar. Not sure, tbh, why LPs tended to outnumber them on the classic punk recordings, except maybe the notion some people have that an AG is a sort of stepping stone to an LP? 

Yep I'm primarily an acoustic player anyway, so I can see why I should be used to just milking one decent sound.

I do find my Epi Casino is a lovely halfway house between the two - elements of a big bodied, ringing hollow body, but electric enough to dig into some soloing with a touch of overdrive.  

I absolutely love the sounds available from the two P90s on the Casino. I'd have had to sell it to buy the SG, and I couldn't justify the step backwards tonally. 

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 29/10/2018 at 11:51, EliasMooseblaster said:

I've heard this mentality from some Strat and LP players - the notion that the Tele and SG were "supposed to be cheaper, mass-produced guitars," and that there's no point in investing in the expensive, high-end American versions, you may as well save your pennies and get the MiM / Epiphone versions.

Granted, the SG is a far simpler construction than a properly chambered, curved-top Les Paul, but I still think it's a thing of beauty in its own right. Yes, it's got that rough-and-readiness about it through association with groups like The Who and AC/DC, and indeed some punk bands, but it's worth remembering that Cream-era Clapton and Santana's early work showed how they could really sing.

Interesting notion. I think there's an argument to made that the Telecaster is, perhaps, more workmanlike that the Strat, but I don't think that makes it any the lesser. Indeed, to my mind there's something much classier about something that is simpler, more refined, that somehow makes it feel more expensive. Where perhaps the budget angle comes in is that if you're wanting to sell a Tele type and a Strat type for the same money, particularly at the lower end of the price scale, the money goes further when the design is simpler - two pups not three, no trem, that sort of thing. 

FWIW, much as I feel there's a place for everything on their scale and that Fender do it perhaps better than anyone else in terms of multiple price-points, I often think of Squier as the closest thing to what Leo had in mind originally: giggable, easy to repair and upgrade, at a very affordable price....  I've owned Fenders from the MIA, CIJ and Squier ranges; love them all. Currently eying the tidepool Strat in the Player series....

Back to the SG, though, I totally agree it's a lovely thing - if anything, I appreciate its simplicity as classier than a fancy top LP. If I were buying an SG, I'd definitely be looking to Gibson, whereas for an LP type I tend to feel the money is better spent elsewhere these days. And yes, an SG can do anything an LP can do.... though that's probably rather more in Clapton's hands than in mine.  

[MoonBassAlpha]

One overlooked feature of the SG is they are a very comfortable shape to wear, and my 74 special is unusually light at 6.5 lbs that's <3kg for you youngsters!

[EdwardMarlowe]

Certainly in my limited (played a few, including a 1978 one that I wish I could have bought as a penniless undergraduate....) experience of SGs, they do sit well - I don't recall the neck dive that they were supposedly notorious for being an issue. 

[EliasMooseblaster]

It's definitely more pronounced on the bass version!

I've never found it to be a deal-breaker myself, though friends who've borrowed an SG for a gig in place of their normal Strat or Les Paul have commented on it. I'm sure the degree to which it bothers a player will depend on their playing style.

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 09/11/2018 at 11:14, EliasMooseblaster said:

It's definitely more pronounced on the bass version!

I've never found it to be a deal-breaker myself, though friends who've borrowed an SG for a gig in place of their normal Strat or Les Paul have commented on it. I'm sure the degree to which it bothers a player will depend on their playing style.

Course, the easy answer to SG neck dive if it happens is just to add a Bigsby, which also has the bonus of adding about a million cool points to any guitar, really...

[Lozz196]

I think the Les Paul is a fuller sound, the SG a bit more focused and sharp. Both great sounds.